Power Pros Forum

I would love to see A-rod tear his achilles tendon, and have his career over and then not make the HOF, No one is ever Guranteed HOF, anything can happen.

And that's not sadistic at all.....
Anyway, he would be a first ballot hall-of-famor without doubt if he retired today. So, he is guaranteed, no question.
Anyway, please stop bringing this up, this point means nothing. Please don't respond Mario if its going to be about third basemen, that ship has sailed. Otherwise, I'm more then happy to hear your ideas mate. Now, back on topic now to pitchers. Anyone have any persueding ideas.

Stop calling me mate, I don't care if your british and if you're not, then don't try it.

He wouln't be a first ballot for a long time, he'd have to wait awhile and their are plenty of other better 3rd basemen defensively and Offensively. He wouldn't be a first ballot beacause he can't hit in the postseason. Don't even try to argue about that.

Here is some information about a few of the other pitchers:

Mordecai Brown:

Jack Chesbro:


Ed Plank:

Chief Bend:

I'm going to edit these soon. Any help or information about them to save me time would be much, much more then welcome. I mean, please, I would really, really welcome it (I did this post early to break off a certain trend and to focus the discussion back on pitchers).

I don't think that Brown's numbers are good enough, maybe AAA

I stand by this statement. There is limited space on the team, and the people making the team have limited time, so its important to make the team full of players people want to have on there.

Having a bunch of pre-1910 players just isnt appealing to most people picking up an All-Star team to play. Some should be considered, like Mathewson, Cy Young, and Walter Johnson maybe, because people know and loved those players, but putting in guys based on ridiculous pre modern baseball era stats is not really merit to prove they are the best of all time.

It seems to me that you are just eliminating pitchers based on pure stats, when theres no one left alive today who can really verify how good some of these guys were in side by side comparison to pitchers from more modern eras.

I agree and I disagree.

I agree that a person’s Dream Rotation and Dream Bullpen should be enjoyable for that person to play and manage. For example, Cleveland Alexander may have been a better pitcher than Bob Gibson, but most people would prefer to play as Bob Gibson.

I disagree that there aren’t accurate methods for comparing players from different eras. Sabermetricians have developed formulas for this exact purpose.

I disagree and sort of agree. I'm not saying there is a way to compare players from different Eras, especially the deadball era, but I do know you can compare players from one era. And that's what I based the stats on.

Nice points Cownip,

(Kind of my opinion)
I think this team should be more of a "legends" team, like favorites...
-Babe Ruth
-Cy Young
-Honus Wagner
-Ty Cobb
-Mickey Mantle
etc.

well, this is going to be full of legends, considering we're trying to get the best players of all time. But I like that sparkplug!

I don't recall, was Walter Johnson one of the pitchers up for consideration for the Pre-1920s pitchers. If so, what criteria eliminated him? He won 417 for .599 WPCT and 2.17 ERA. 3508 K's.

I went back and looked at the stats for elimination and the #4 pitching era was 2.13 CM and the WPCT was .618 Happy.

What if you took the top 5 and combined, would this have listed 8 and put Walter Johnson on the list? I am not wanting to change your procedure for picking the players, but how did you decide top 4 and not top 5 from each category.

If I was voting, I would choose CM and Walter Johnson. Here is a comment that Ty Cobb made about him

"The first time I faced him (Walter Johnson) I watched him take that easy windup and then something went past me that made me flinch. The thing just hissed with danger. We couldn't touch him....every one of us knew we'd met the most powerful arm ever turned loose in a ball park." - Ty Cobb

It's not hard to compare pitchers from the Deadball Era to pitchers of the 70's, 80's, 90's or today. No, you can't hold their K/9 and K/BB rates beside each other and try to surmise who was the better player because the era, or more specifically, the season and the league, dictates what kind of numbers a player can produce. But where a player registers compared to the Average Value or Replacement Value (0) player from the same season tells you how valuable that player was in the context of that specific season. For example, the VORP of Tom Seaver (87.7) and Jim Palmer (86.3) from their 1973 seasons are just as comparable to each other as they are to the 2005 season of Johan Santana (89.5).

You can do the same for any player at any position during any era, Deadball Era included.

Awesome quote. "Hissed with danger." It's perfect.

And I agree. A Dream Rotation that deos not include both Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson might as well be empty.

To be honest, I made the move because there was so little discussion about all those players, and I thought simplify it would help. If you all agree that you want me to include all 8, then thats no problem, I'm more then happy to.

I vote to include Johnson in the 8 to pick from if and only if he would have been the 8th one. If there was someone else in front of him I don't want you to change anything.