Power Pros Forum

Yes, that was the general point. The votes are much more for the official list and for which players will be avaible first. Yogi beat Bench 7-5 if I remember right. If we were to have a third catcher, I think it should be Pudge for the best defensive one, but he's still playing. Looks like it will be Hornsby. Just so I can put this up right away, what should the third basemen be? While I think its clear once you actually put up the stats (as I did earliar in the forum) I understand people being against having A-Rod (personal grudges as well as the fact he's still playing). I won't compleatly count him out as a possibility yet, but who else would you vote (I might as well put him in the poll).
Schmidt should be in there. Perhaps some other players who played third base as much as other positions but were already voted on.
Any others?

I love Bench, but Josh Gibson is the best catcher of all time. He was the equivelent of 12 Johnny Benches, 2 Babe Ruths and 1 Charlie Parker.

He's not really eligible though because he didn't play in the majors.

What about Satchel Paige for a starting pitcher...

Just worry about each position as it comes. I don't think satch is good enough anyway.

I disagree Lance, we should plan ahead. Keep the suggestions coming mate.
I have two possibilities, one that is suprisingly not well known. Happy Jack Chesbro and Whitey Ford. I'll post some stats later, but Chesbro had one of the best pitcher seasons of all time (I'd say it was the best, but I think Gibson beats it. This guy is a close second.
Happy Jack Chesbro pitched in the first game in Yankee History. He won an astounding and an amazing record of 41 wins out of 51 games (incredible winning percentage too!), 48 of which he finished! He posted a 1.82 ERA, struck out 239 batters, and had 454.7 innings pitched. Now I know this is coming: Happy Jack had so many wins because he was with the Yankees. That is definetly not the case, the Yankees in the first 10 years or so were probably the worst team in baseball. If anything, he shouldn't be penalized but looked on as an even better player who deserved more wins if he played with a competitive team. This win record by the way is the oldest with-standing record in baseball. He had 5 20 win seasons. Anyone interested in Jack as one of the top 5, or at least as one of the 7/10 (I plan to have 7-10 starters made).

No, Gibson's season wasn't the best in the history of baseball. It was the best in the 1900's. in 1889 (?) Charley "Old Hoss" Radbourn won 59 games in one season.

With pretty much all baseball records, they only look at the "modern era", meaing since 1900. You can't really count those times, especially considering the fact that he pitched well over 75 games. It was 1884 by the way. Actually, I don't think I'd call Gibson's season the best considering the fact the mound was lowered. His ERA went from Hall-Of-Fame 2.5 ish ERA to simply incredible 1.1 ERA. I might put "Happy Jack" at the top.

So Honus has been decided as starting shortstop? And we are considering who will be pitching? here's a list:

Walter Johnson
Lefty Grove
Sandy Koufax
Cy Young
Pete Alexander
Warren Spahn
Kid Nichols
Christy Mathewson
Tom Seaver

No, it hasn't been decided. Wait till Saturday (it runs out sometime tomorrow. I think we should look at every single hall-of-fame pitcher and narrow them down, one by one. Here is the list:
There are 58. We can eliminate it to about 20-30 very quickly. I just want to give each one a quick look over and chance.
Grover Cleveland Alexander • Chief Bender • Mordecai Brown • Ray Brown • Jim Bunning • Steve Carlton • Jack Chesbro • John Clarkson • Andy Cooper • Stan Coveleski • Candy Cummings • Leon Day • Dizzy Dean • Martin Dihigo • Don Drysdale • Dennis Eckersley • Red Faber • Bob Feller • Rollie Fingers • Whitey Ford • Bill Foster • Jim Galvin • Bob Gibson • Lefty Gomez • Goose Gossage • Burleigh Grimes • Lefty Grove • Jesse Haines • Waite Hoyt • Carl Hubbell • Catfish Hunter • Fergie Jenkins • Walter Johnson • Addie Joss • Tim Keefe • Sandy Koufax • Bob Lemon • Ted Lyons • Juan Marichal • Rube Marquard • Christy Mathewson • Joe McGinnity • Jose Mendez • Hal Newhouser • Kid Nichols • Phil Niekro • Satchel Paige • Jim Palmer • Herb Pennock • Gaylord Perry • Eddie Plank • Charley Radbourn • Eppa Rixey • Robin Roberts • Bullet Rogan • Red Ruffing • Amos Rusie • Nolan Ryan • Tom Seaver • Hilton Smith • Warren Spahn • Bruce Sutter • Don Sutton • Dazzy Vance • Rube Waddell • Ed Walsh • Mickey Welch • Hoyt Wilhelm • Joe Williams • Vic Willis • Early Wynn • Cy Young
So I'm going to break these up an analyze them in groups of ten. Any potential contraversal guys I'll leave in. In anyone really disagrees with me on anything, just say so and I'll leave em for "round 2" haha.

I'll provide a suggestion: (in addition to the ones already mentioned earlier)

Bob Gibson
Jack Chesboro
Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown
Dizzy Dean
Bob Feller
Whitey Ford
Carl Hubbel
Fergie Jenkins
Nolan Ryan
Robin Roberts
Juan Marichal
Satchel Paige
Gaylord Perry
Ed Walsh

I just want to state that anyone who pitched after 1930 and had a ERA under 2 automatically bypasses my first elimination.
Bolded guys pass. Italicized don;t

1. Grover Alexander has a 2.56 ERA in his career. He did however play in 1910-1930. The thing that makes him pass automatically in my book is that he won 373, lost only 208, adding up to a .642 winning percentage.

2. Chief Bender played in 1903-1925. He had a 2.46 ERA. He only won 212 but had a 625 winning percentage. He relived a lot also to get a lot of his wins. I think he passes too.

3. Modercai Brown played in the very early 1900s but had a 2.06 ERA and a 648 winning percentage, meaning he passes too.

4. Jim Bunning has a 3.27 ERA in the 1955-1971. His winning percentage was 541 and while he certainly was a very good pitcher, he surely can;t be in the discussion for best all time

5. Steve Carlton passes for his high strike out numbers.

6. Jack Chesbro passes for reasons mentioned already

7. John Clarkson had a 2.81 ERA and played in the 1880s. Playing only 12 years I don't think this guy should pass. His ERA was much higher then most hall-of-famers at that time.

8. Stan Coveleski pitched in 1912-1928. He had a 2.89 ERA and a .602 Winning Percentage. However he only pitched 14 years and won 214 games. Despite being an outstanding pitcher, compared to other hall-of-fame pitchers in his Era, he just doesn't make the cut.

9. Dizzy Dean. He had a 3.02 ERA after 1930s (exactly). He missed the ERA by 2 points. I say let em' pass

10. Don Drysale had a 2.95 ERA post 1960s. He passes.

Yikes, 3 out of the first didn't pass. Hopefully this is just this letter. I'll go through others faster and eliminate them based on certain statistics.
Now 11 through 20:

11. Dennis Eckersley He'd go in as a reliever
12. Red Faber 3.15 ERA in the 1914-1933 and .544 PCT. He just doesn't compare to the others in his ERA.
13. Bob Feller
An ERA of 3.25 and much more so a winning percentage of .602 lets him pass.
14. Rollie Fingers Reliever
15. Whitey Ford He has a 2.75 ERA in 1950-1967, he is surely one of the best in the game and arguably the best after the 1950s. He also has the highest winning percentage in history at .690 (after getting decisions for 200+ games)
16. Pud Galvin With a winning percentage of .540 and an ERA of 2.87 before the 1900s, he just doesn't compare to the best of his Era.
17.

Win Shares are good indicator of greatness. Here is a link to an All-Time list for PITCHERS:
http://www.geocities.com/cyrilmorong@sb ... SperIP.htm

Here's the lineup

C-Y.Berra
1B-L.Gherig
2B-R.Hornsby
SS-H.Wagner(probably
3B-
LF-B.Ruth
CF-T.Cobb
RF-T.Williams

SP-
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

RP-
Long Reliever-
Long Reliever-
Middle Reliever-
Middle Reliever-
Lefty Specialist-
Mop-Up Man-
Set-up Man-
Set-up Man-
Closer-

We should do third base next in my opinion.

Lance, I thank you for trying to clarify that, but you accidentally keep on putting characters in there who haven't been decided on yet. Ty Cobb is not officially the center fielder. . He's one of the three being made and a potential starter (DiMaggio and Mayes are also. I actually think Dimaggio is the best player of them based on previous statistics I mentioned earliar in the thread (please search for them if you want to talk about this know, but I'm teporarily worried about pitchers), but Cobb might add the most as he isn't a slugger).
I've seen winshares before and while I find them a very interesting concept, I'm not too much of a fan of them.
Continuing Pitchers:
17. Bob Gibson With an ERA under 3 and a career from 1959 to the 70s, he passes.
18. Lefty Gomez While his ERA isn't much, he does have a 649 winning percentage, which is why he passes.
19. Burleigh Grimes While he is very good, I'm suprised this guy was a hall of famer as he played before the 1930s and had a 3.53 ERA and .560 Winning Percentage.
20. Lefty Grove I thinky Lefty Grove is highly over-rated after seeing this and his ERA is so high that I don't want to pass him as he's pre 1930. However, his 680 winning percentage convinces me plus his popularity. I don't see this guy making it past the "second round" though.
So, now 9 haven't passed out of 20.
Now 21-30.