Power Pros Forum

Yes, but that doesn't have to do with anything mate. He still has the best stats right now anyway. Now, about pitchers.. (will probably edit this post unless more happen before I can, I am looking at pitchers now).

Well, I don't know about that. Arod and Schmidt are with an OPS+ point of each other career-wise.

Its an interesting debate, but I have never been a huge fan of OPS. I much more prefer to look at average and slugging individually. Now you know the stat I would love to compare is average with runners in scoring position or clutch hitting average. I haven't seen that anywhere, but I always see that as one of the most important stats.

and they are within a point in the race, 9-8 A-Rod. If A-Rod wins, it means we won't have to make as many success players.

I still think we should make him as he is underrated in the game.

It is a very important stat but if the question is just AVG vs. OBP then OBP wins in a landslide.

Yes, but it doesn't include OBP or RBIs. While it is a good stat and useful for a quick glance, if you really look deep into the statistics there are other things I find more valuable. A-Rod won it, but both players will be made. I think since there is so much contraversy, we should make both at roughly the same time vrs. putting Schmidt off. It was such a close race anyway.
Now, lets continue talking about pitchers. I'm going to begin listing a few in each ERA and trying to eliminate them to at least 20, starting with pre-1900s.
Here is the list of every player who is still a possibility.

1. Rube Waddell
2. Ed Walsh
3. Cy Young
4. Hoyt Wilhelm
5. Eddie Plank
6. Gaylord Perry
7. Nolan Ryan
8. Tom Seaver
9. Warren Spahn
10. Juan Marichal
11. Christy Mathewson
12. Jim Palmer
13. Carl Hubbel
14. Walter Johnson
15. Addie Joss
16. Sandy Koufax
17. Bob Gibson
18. Lefty Gomez
19. Lefty Grove
20. Grover Alexander
21. Chief Bender
22. Mordecai Brown
23. Steve Carlton
24. "Happy Jack" Chesbro
25. Dizzy Dean
26. Don Drysdale
26. Bob Feller
27. Whitey Ford
Pre-1900s Pitchers to 1910:
1. Rube Waddell
2. Cy Young
3. Addie Joss
4. Ed Walsh
5. Eddie Plank
6. Christy Mathewson
7. Walter Johnson
8. Chief Bender
9. Mordecai Brown
10. Happy Jack Chesbro
(I orginally had only pre-1900s which brought up 3 pitchers. I got 10 with pre-1900s).
We will need to eliminate at least 3.
Here are some key stats:
1. Rube Waddell
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
13 Years 407 340 53 193 143 .574 2.16 261 50 5 2,961.1 12,101 2,460 711 1,063 37 803 - 2,316 77 117 4 -
Wow, 2.16 ERA. He will very likely pass.
2. Addie Joss
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
9 Years 286 260 22 160 97 .623 1.89 234 45 5 2,327.0 9,209 1,888 488 729 19 364 - 920 28 60 2 -
Again, almost certainly passing, but he did only pitch 9 years. Because of his inexperince, I prefer Waddel

3. Ed Walsh
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
14 Years 430 315 102 195 126 .607 1.82 250 57 34 2,964.1 11,713 2,346 598 877 23 617 - 1,736 84 54 14 -
The best ERA ever, he should definetly pass.

4. Eddie Plank

Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
17 Years 623 529 74 326 194 .627 2.35 410 69 23 4,495.2 18,225 3,958 1,174 1,569 41 1,072 - 2,246 87 196 6 -
As good as he is, we have to eliminate someone and his ERA isn't as good as the other players so far. Still, he did pitch the longest so far and has the most experince
5. Christy Mathewson
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
17 Years 635 551 74 373 188 .665 2.13 434 79 28 4,780.2 19,136 4,218 1,133 1,616 91 844 - 2,502 114 59
God, how are we going to eliminate anyone?
6.Walter Johnson
Another one!
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
21 Years 802 666 127 417 279 .599 2.17 531 110 34 5,914.1 23,420 4,913 1,424 1,902 97 1,363 - 3,508 154 205 4 -
7. Chief Bender
Because the other players were so incredible, I think he might not pass.
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
16 Years 459 334 109 212 127 .625 2.46 255 40 34 3,017.0 10,124 2,645 823 1,110 40 712 - 1,711 72 102 3 -
8. Mordecai Brown
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
14 Years 481 332 138 239 130 .648 2.06 271 55 49 3,172.1 12,642 2,708 725 1,044 43 673 - 1,375 59 63 4 -
Jesus Christ, I knew the deadball era was bad, but this bad?
9. Cy Young
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
22 Years 906 815 82 511 316 .618 2.63 749 76 17 7,356.0 28,517 7,092 2,147 2,994 138 1,217 - 2,803 150 157 2 -
I hate to say it, but so far Cy Young has been the worst pitcher. I think he should be eliminated.
10. Happy Jack Chesbro
Career G GS GF W L PCT ERA CG SHO SV IP BFP H ER R HR BB IBB SO WP HBP BK HLD
11 Years 392 332 52 198 132 .600 2.68 260 35 5 2,896.2 12,013 2,642 864 1,209 39 690 - 1,265 62 113 2 -
Same with happy jack. I was originally going to give the last two a free pass.

Way to difficult or me read.


Well, then if you can put A-Rod it then it's only fair you put someone like Randy Johnson or Jim Edmonds.

Jim Edmonds isn't that good.

Yeah, he kind of is, look at his defense.

No, it's not because he's not the best player of all time. I should put Randy Jonshon and Pedro as an option, yes, but they obviously don't get a free ride in because they may not be one of the all time best 10. Their's probably not.
I've also determined that no more then 2-3 guys will have to be pre 1920s but no more can be as their stats can't be compared to todays. My guess is that Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, and Ed Walsh(best ERA of all time) will and definetly should be in there, but the others could be anyone. You don't have to read that much, but I'd suggest it if you want a role in deciding who are our pitchers. If not, fine by me.

Alot of those deadball era pitchers stats are really outrageous. If those guys are going to be included, I'd say all the steroid era guys also need to be included for this lineup. Making a "dream team" is not all about stats...its all about making a team of players people WANT to see on their all star team. Hence, I would vote that none of the deadball pitchers be included, since their stats are unreliable, and inflated.

Bob Gibson, Juan marichal, Don Drysdale, Nolan Ryan, etc... these players are the types people want to see on their hall of fame team- players people in the 20th century have seen, and who dominated their era when the level of parity in the leagues was at a high, not someone whos stats show they dominated weak competition in an era before modern baseball.

Bob Gibson's stats are equally inflated for a few years when they lowered the mound (why they did it, I have no idea). I think we should do it by the best pitchers of each era and of all time, and I say include 2-3 of the early players too. I think it shouldn't be the most popular players but the best, I see no reason for it to be different. I don't know if I'd put Nolan Ryan in the top 10 despite being the best/second best strike-out player of all time (Randy Johnshon struck out more an inning but since he came on a 5-man rotation, he never got innings that were anything like Nolan Ryan's).

crap. would've voted for schmidt if i was on in time...

And they say each vote doesn't count.
Haha, sorry mate.
So, I just want to rank ERA of these pre-1920s pitchers and then rank winnign percentage. The top 4 of each (no extra if they intersect) will not be eliminated. 2 of these will be one of the ten pitchers made (but none are guranteed a spot in the 5 man rotation.
ERA:
1. Ed Walsh 1.82
2. Addie Joss 1.89
3. Mordecai Brown 2.06
4. Christy Mathewson 2.13

WPCT:
1. Christy Mathewson .665
2. Eddie Plank .627
3. Chief Bend .625
4. Happy "Jack" Chesbro .618
So that means that the players that are from the 1920s and before that you will vote on are:
1. Ed Walsh
2. Addie Joss
3. Mordecai Brown
4. Chirsty Mathewson
5. Eddie Plank
6. Chief Bend
7. Happy "Jack" Chesbro
2 of these 7 guys will be on the roster! Any arguments for these guys are well appreciated. Once we have enough stats and arguments, I will put up a poll. It will be put up on Wednesday or Thursday and it will last for 3 days (Saturday or Sunday).
By the way, do you think we should vote by Era and give a few spots for each era of the ten or should we do all at once now? The lowered mound might be considered a seperate era to vote on individually but that was so short and there were only 2-4 pitchers from that time, I believe.