Power Pros Forum

There's always the best offensive catcher of all time: Mike Piazza.

EHh, I don't know about that, him over Yogi? I know Yogi is one of the best defensive catchers of all time, probably second (no one compares to Ivan), but I always though he was the best offensively. He and Whitey (one of the best of all time but not one of the best 5 starters) were an amazing team. Yogi was also the best post-season catcher with great hitting in post season with by far the most world series of any catcher as well as the most by a decent margin as a player.
Jorge is one of the better hitting catchers and had probably the best offensive year for a catcher last year but he's certainly not a hall-of-famer and shouldn't be on this list. This isn't based on one year obviously but on career.

Bill James (The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, published in 2000) says that, according to his sabermetric method (Win Shares), the best player (I'll list second-best, too) at each position are:

C: Yogi (Bench close second)
1B: Lou Gehrig (Jimmie Foxx second)
2B: Joe Morgan (Eddie Collins and Rogers Hornsby barely behind)
3B: Mike Schmidt (George Brett second) (remember, this was published in 2000!)
SS: Honus Wagner by a HUGE margin
LF: Ted Williams (Stan Musial second)
CF: Willie Mays (Ty Cobb second, Mickey Mantle third, Tris Speaker 4th, Joe DiMaggio 5th)
RF: Babe Ruth (Hank Aaron second)

I saw that and I didn't agree with that method. Ty Cobbs has beat Mayes in almost every statistic. I don't like win shares and I'm basing it off other statistics. So, I don't want to count anything from that. Jackie I could definetly be wrong about it, he's definitely the most important second-baseman but, while being a hall-of-famer even if this weren't the case, is often over-rated because his crucial role in baseball history and inter-league.

Ellsbury already has been compared to Henderson. Ellsbury is only 24, so he will only get FASTER. Also, Gardener is fast, but no one in MLB can compare to how fast Ellsbury is, execpt for maybe Crawford or Ichiro.

If you're looking for raw offense, sure. Piazza's still a .308 career hitter who leads all catchers in HRs. Bonus points for being taken in the 62nd Round supposedly as a favor from Tommy Lasorda. Piazza's defense was never anything to write home about though. All I know about Yogi's is everyone raves about it when he actually was a catcher.

What about Negro Leaguers like Josh Gibson and Oscar Charleston and... uh, forgot his name... Cool something...

Cool Papa Bell?

That's not true, he probably won't get faster and he'll never steal 124. Unlike in MLBPP World, players generally don't get faster or at least not that much faster. Gardner is actually faster if you look at how fast a runner is on the TV. Ellsbury is a very smart stealer and always takes advantage of the proper oppurtunities, Gardner will learn to as well. Also, Gardner hasn't had anywhere near a fifth of the At-Bats Ellsbury has or gotten on base anywhere near an 8th of the time Ellsbury has but allready has more then a 5th of Ellsburie's steals. That's how fast this guy is. Next year, if Gardner can get his average up (and he has started to get it up and hit well), then Gardner could very well lead the game in steals. Its hard to see which one of these guys will be better in the end.
Now Piazza might be an interesting guy to look at for the bench, but I'm not sure.
I don't want to put Negro Leaguers in there because I really just don't know how they compare to Major Leagures. Its a tough decision but there is no way to know how they would rank. However while they wouldn't be on the official team, I encourage anyone to make them and I'd be sure to put at least a foot note about this and giving links to passwords of the best Negro Leagurs.
Who is cool papa bell?
That's great about Piazza. Any ideas about relievers?

The Red Sox aren't a basestealing game. Now I never said he was going to get over 100 steals. Ellbury is explosive as soon as he makes contact. gardner is just told to go, Ellsbury knows the right time. This has nothing to do with MLBPP......

Last time I'm going to say this and then lets drop the subject because were straying off topic. Elssbruy I agree is a smart stealer and so is Gardner, who is faster but not as smart when it comes to stealing. That type of thing improves easily but not speed. By the way, getting compared to Hendrickson is just the media being kind of stupid, they jump on things like that all the time. They said that Lester is probably a hall-of-famer once! He's been good, not that good, and he's way too young! Cano's swing was changed frecently to be more compact and since then he has hit almost 500 (70 at bats or so). He was 4-5 against the sox today and would have been 5-5 if an amazing play by the rookie shortstop wasn't made.
Now who is Cool Papi Bell?

One of the fastest people to ever play baseball. He was a lot like Lou Brock, but better power and much better overall defensive skills.

It was said of Bell that "he could turn off the light on the other side of the room and be in bed before the room got dark." Wow...

Also, i could suggest stats, for starters, about Josh Gibson:

Position: Catcher

Contact: 12/13
Power: 255
Spd: 5/6
Arm Str: 13
Fld: 11
E Res: 11

hey you know there was this really good right fielder who played for the pirates... oh what's his name

oh yeah! Roberto Clemente

you know, they have the right field wall at PNC Park 21 feet high because that's what number he wore

he wasn't too bad

Oh jeez I compleatly forgot about him, but he really doesn't compare to Ruth. Maybe he could be a dh or fourth outfielder. I'm going to compare Dimagio's best three seasons to Ty Cobbs and choose the center fielder off of that. What did Papi Bell play?
By the way, I might take a look at Clemente for center but its unlikely. He'll probably be at least on the bench.

I judged both these guys by the year with the best average, the year with the most RBIs, and a year after that that stood out the most besides those 2.
Dimaggio's best years:
1939 at 24
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
120 462 108 176 32 6 30 126 3 0 52 20 .381 .448 .671 184 310

1937 at 22
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
151 621 151 215 35 15 46 167 3 0 64 37 .346 .412 .673 168 418 418

1941 at 26
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
139 541 122 193 48 11 30 125 4 2 76 13 .357 .440 .643 184 348 348

Pretty good seasons, eh? The top 3 are very debatable and if you disagree and think another is better, please let me know. Later on in his career he was slowed down by missing time in World War 2 (thus, with lack of practice, he lost some ability) and injuries. Now, Ty Cobb's 3 best:
1922 at 35
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
137 526 99 211 42 16 4 99 9 13 55 24 .401 .462 .565 170 297 297

1911 at 24
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
146 591 147 248 47 24 8 127 83 44 .420 .467 .621 196 367

1907 at 20
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+ TB
150 605 97 212 28 14 5 119 49 24 .350 .380 .468 167 283

Clearly DiMaggio has more RBis and is a better clutch hitter while Ty Cobb is a guy who hits just for average (I don't believe he was lead off. This was befoe they generally had the whole generic lead-off batter).
Now the best statistic of any of their years for each statistic:
Games: 151 DiMaggio 1937
At Bats: 621 DiMaggio 1937
Runs Scored: 151 DiMaggio 1937
Hits: 1911 Ty Cobb 248
Doubles: 1941 DiMaggio 48
Triples: 1911 Ty Cobb 24
Home Runs: 1937 DiMaggio 47
RBI: 1937 DiMaggio 167
Stolen Bases: 1911 Ty Cobb 83 (wow)
Walks: 1941 DiMaggio 76
Least Strike Outs: 1941 DiMaggio 13 (amazing!)
Average: 1911 Ty Cobb .420 (simply incredible, I believe this is the best)
On Base Percentage: 1911 Ty Cobb .467
Slugging Percentage: 1937 DiMaggio 673
OPS: 1937 DiMaggio 418
Total Bases: 1937 DiMaggio 418


Based on this, it appears Dimaggio might be the best. He has the most games played, at bats, runs scored, doubles, home runs, rbis, walks, least strikeouts, Slugging Percentage, OPS, and Total Bases. That's 11 catagories
Ty Cobb leads hits, triples, stolen bases, average, and on base percentage. That's only 6 catagories. The most important catagories to me are Total Bases, Slugging Percentage, Average, Stolen Bases, RBI, Home Runs, and Run Scored (hits is basically average). DiMaggio leads 5 of these while Ty Cobb leads 2.
I'm thinking Dimagio might is the best, any thoughts?