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To tell you a little about myself, I'm a game development teacher and I wanted to start this thread/debate about video games. I love games (I'm sure all of us here do) and I have been playing since '85. As a gamer, I have noticed that many game developers are focusing on aesthetics for games like graphics, physics, etc. and not enough on gameplay. I actually miss the time when you can pick up and play a game without having to study and write a 10 page report on the manual. Do I like the aesthetics? I do like them but only if gameplay isn't sacrificed. I can play something that's 16-bit and have more fun than playing something like Bioshock. So what do you peeps thinks about games today? What's your opinion?

Swashbuckla wrote:

I couldn't agree more. I mean, I'm getting a little tired of all those games where the only thing that matters are realistic graphics and the ability to blow each other's brains out. How about some actual style or art in the graphics? Would it hurt that much to have a little plot or thinking involved?
My all-time favorite game is Grim Fandango. While its slow to begin, it's amazing when it starts picking up the pace. The end is just so beautifully done. I've never imagined being so upset from beating a game until this.
Has anyone else played this or any of the other real Lucas Arts classics (not the star wars crap they have now)?

cownip wrote:

Swashbuckla wrote:

I've never played any Lucas Arts games outside of the Star Wars games. I didn't even know they did more than Stars Wars and Indiana Jones.

I with you on having the player think a bit or having just a little bit of plot. My favorite games are Star Fox and Star Fox 64 (can't choose the best b/w them). There was a small plot but it was good enough that it didn't overshadow the game. The gameplay was so much fun to me that I would constantly replay the game, even now.

Does anyone have an example of a game that was just bad on gameplay? And tell us why?

Although the latest Sam & Max series from them is pushing new limits.

rsoohoo wrote:

Although the latest Sam & Max series from them is pushing new limits.

Gotta love sam and max!

I haven't played any of those games but I will have to. Has anyone played Beyond Good and Evil? That's an excellent game. I never beat it but it was a fun game. My wife enjoyed that game and she is NOT a gamer so I gotta give them credit.

Author:	Swashbuckla [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Games Today
To tell you a little about myself, I'm a game development teacher and I wanted to start this thread/debate about video games. I love games (I'm sure all of us here do) and I have been playing since '85. As a gamer, I have noticed that many game developers are focusing on aesthetics for games like graphics, physics, etc. and not enough on gameplay. I actually miss the time when you can pick up and play a game without having to study and write a 10 page report on the manual. Do I like the aesthetics? I do like them but only if gameplay isn't sacrificed. I can play something that's 16-bit and have more fun than playing something like Bioshock. So what do you peeps thinks about games today? What's your opinion?

Author:	duke776 [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
I think that many more people will complain when a company is going for realistic graphics because they will most likely not get near real life graphics, like a lot of people expect, but is extremely hard to reach. But, I thought that a game that focused on gameplay, and less on graphics(like power pros), wouldn't get accepted very much because a lot of gamers are now much more concerned with graphics. But from what I have seen it has this game has been accepted pretty well, and it suprised me a lot. I also don't have as much fun with games that go for realistic graphics for some reason, but with this game I have a lot of fun with.

Author:	Marvin Card [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
My gaming also goes way back to Intelevision and the like, and those games were awesome fun. I would give up aesthetics for better game play and a better over all experience. That is why I have always been a Nintendo fan. Sure the games are some what goofy and childish, and the graphics usually leave something to be desired, but they are fun games that I can play, and play, and play and never get sick of them. Good game play and fun is my idea of a great game.

Author:	Swashbuckla [ Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Funny story... When I went to Gamestop to specifically pick up Power Pros, the cashier pulled the game down and looked at the cover. He said to me with wide eyes, "Are you sure you want this one?" He twisted his face in disbelief that I would want a game like that. To be perfectly honest with you peeps, I have not put in many hour into any game since Half-Life 2. Games I've played beyond that have been very sub par. Though I don't own a Wii, I am a Nintendo fanboy and have been since the NES (though I was skeptical at first about the Gamecube). Right now I get in trouble with my wife for playing Power Pros, lol!

Author:	DarkShade [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Gameplay is where it's at. I put more hours in the original SNES Mario Kart than I could ever count, and it was a goofy concept at the time -- put Mario characters on gokarts and race them? Turned out to be a good idea. As for Power Pros' graphics, they complement the style of the gameplay well. That's why I don't like super-realistic games, if I wanted a real baseball game I'd go to the field and hit some balls myself.

Power Pros Forum https://www.mlbppworld.com/

Games Today https://www.mlbppworld.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=467	Page 1 of 2

Author:	cownip [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Swashbuckla wrote: To tell you a little about myself, I'm a game development teacher and I wanted to start this thread/debate about video games. I love games (I'm sure all of us here do) and I have been playing since '85. As a gamer, I have noticed that many game developers are focusing on aesthetics for games like graphics, physics, etc. and not enough on gameplay. I actually miss the time when you can pick up and play a game without having to study and write a 10 page report on the manual. Do I like the aesthetics? I do like them but only if gameplay isn't sacrificed. I can play something that's 16-bit and have more fun than playing something like Bioshock. So what do you peeps thinks about games today? What's your opinion? I couldn't agree more. I mean, I'm getting a little tired of all those games where the only thing that matters are realistic graphics and the ability to blow each other's brains out. How about some actual style or art in the graphics? Would it hurt that much to have a little plot or thinking involved? My all-time favorite game is Grim Fandango. While its slow to begin, it's amazing when it starts picking up the pace. The end is just so beautifully done. I've never imagined being so upset from beating a game until this. Has anyone else played this or any of the other real Lucas Arts classics (not the star wars crap they have now)?

Author:	Wyl [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Being 36 and having cut my gaming teeth on the Intellivision, Atari 2600, and arcade games in their early '80s heyday, I also believe that gameplay trumps graphics. Over the last almost 30 years I've watched games get more complex and graphics continually improve from generation to generation, and over time the gameplay has increasingly taken a back seat to visual content and "engines." I think one of the biggest differences between then and now and is that today's gamers need more than a "high score" accomplishment in their games. So you rarely find games anymore that are open ended and last as long as you care to play them. I also think that has stifled creativity to some degree, because when you peel off the graphics engines and plot and look at the core gameplay, so many games are basically the same. Wolf3D led to Doom led to Quake, and so on, but they're all fundamentally the same game. With sports games, most developers make the mistake of trying to push the graphical realism as far as they can, with the result that the gameplay is usually stilted and clunky rather than being smooth and flowing. That's why I think MLBPP is the best baseball game on the market, because of the smooth gameplay (though it isn't perfect by any means). That's why in many ways Madden '93 on the Sega Genesis is more fun to play than more recent versions on "nextgen" consoles. Now don't get me wrong, I appreciate a game with great graphics - I just don't want the graphics to be at the expense of the gameplay. And as much as gamers view every new generation of games through rose-colored glasses, we're really not anywhere close to photorealistic graphics in games (outside of pre-rendered scenes). So even then, "high end graphics" aren't always what they're cracked up to be. When people get into the whole system wars debates over which console has better graphics and such, I more or less just laugh because it's all temporal anyway. 10-15 years from now we'll look back on the current "nextgen" systems with the same kind of quaint fondness we do other obsolete systems today. So what does stand the test of time isn't the graphics, but the quality of the play.

Author:	Swashbuckla [ Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
cownip wrote: Swashbuckla wrote: To tell you a little about myself, I'm a game development teacher and I wanted to start this thread/debate about video games. I love games (I'm sure all of us here do) and I have been playing since '85. As a gamer, I have noticed that many game developers are focusing on aesthetics for games like graphics, physics, etc. and not enough on gameplay. I actually miss the time when you can pick up and play a game without having to study and write a 10 page report on the manual. Do I like the aesthetics? I do like them but only if gameplay isn't sacrificed. I can play something that's 16-bit and have more fun than playing something like Bioshock. So what do you peeps thinks about games today? What's your opinion? I couldn't agree more. I mean, I'm getting a little tired of all those games where the only thing that matters are realistic graphics and the ability to blow each other's brains out. How about some actual style or art in the graphics? Would it hurt that much to have a little plot or thinking involved? My all-time favorite game is Grim Fandango. While its slow to begin, it's amazing when it starts picking up the pace. The end is just so beautifully done. I've never imagined being so upset from beating a game until this. Has anyone else played this or any of the other real Lucas Arts classics (not the star wars crap they have now)? I've never played any Lucas Arts games outside of the Star Wars games. I didn't even know they did more than Stars Wars and Indiana Jones. I with you on having the player think a bit or having just a little bit of plot. My favorite games are Star Fox and Star Fox 64 (can't choose the best b/w them). There was a small plot but it was good enough that it didn't overshadow the game. The gameplay was so much fun to me that I would constantly replay the game, even now. Does anyone have an example of a game that was just bad on gameplay? And tell us why?

Author:	cownip [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Swashbuckla wrote: cownip wrote: Swashbuckla wrote: To tell you a little about myself, I'm a game development teacher and I wanted to start this thread/debate about video games. I love games (I'm sure all of us here do) and I have been playing since '85. As a gamer, I have noticed that many game developers are focusing on aesthetics for games like graphics, physics, etc. and not enough on gameplay. I actually miss the time when you can pick up and play a game without having to study and write a 10 page report on the manual. Do I like the aesthetics? I do like them but only if gameplay isn't sacrificed. I can play something that's 16-bit and have more fun than playing something like Bioshock. So what do you peeps thinks about games today? What's your opinion? I couldn't agree more. I mean, I'm getting a little tired of all those games where the only thing that matters are realistic graphics and the ability to blow each other's brains out. How about some actual style or art in the graphics? Would it hurt that much to have a little plot or thinking involved? My all-time favorite game is Grim Fandango. While its slow to begin, it's amazing when it starts picking up the pace. The end is just so beautifully done. I've never imagined being so upset from beating a game until this. Has anyone else played this or any of the other real Lucas Arts classics (not the star wars crap they have now)? I've never played any Lucas Arts games outside of the Star Wars games. I didn't even know they did more than Stars Wars and Indiana Jones. I with you on having the player think a bit or having just a little bit of plot. My favorite games are Star Fox and Star Fox 64 (can't choose the best b/w them). There was a small plot but it was good enough that it didn't overshadow the game. The gameplay was so much fun to me that I would constantly replay the game, even now. Does anyone have an example of a game that was just bad on gameplay? And tell us why? They hide them up as if they never existed. Lucas Arts was one of the leading companies when it came to adventure games (the old definition, not the new one). Search for it on google and try out Grim Fandango or Monkey Island. Their only 10 dollars. If you try Grim Fandango, make sure to get into year two and play a little there before you give up on it. It is pretty bad at the beggining as the puzzles are just too hard and not logical, but that changes. Just use hints/a guide when you run into trouble.

Author:	rnunez187 [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
I've found that as I get older(31), graphics mean almost nothing to me. I find myself wanting a game with great gameplay like I grew up with. Tried to play a game of the Show 08 yesterday and turned it off after 2 innings. I've found myself playing lots of game in MAME and retro games like Galaga on my Xbox 360.

Author:	rsoohoo [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Gameplay always shines through. Having a good sense of STYLE helps alot, the graphics don't need to be spectacular, but the way the game is organized should atleast point me in the right direction, or make the learning curve less noticible. I see the complexity problem as a huge trend with sports games, instead of smoothing out or tweaking a system, developers will just add more features to system that still needs improvement. What is specatular about the MLBPP engine, is that it's a cumulation of years of refinement. All of the Lucas adventure games haven't even been close to touched by modern day adventure games, and most just resuse the simple formulas that made Monkey Island (indiana jones, maniac mansion, sam & max, etc) hit the nail on the head with, with better graphics. Although the latest Sam & Max series from them is pushing new limits. Gameplay matters the most, but the ones that use good style as well, end up being winners.

Author:	MaxDSterling [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
rsoohoo wrote: Although the latest Sam & Max series from them is pushing new limits. Gotta love sam and max!

Author:	cownip [ Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
MaxDSterling wrote: rsoohoo wrote: Although the latest Sam & Max series from them is pushing new limits. Gotta love sam and max! Hate to say this, but I tried Sam and Max and kind of hated it. I had high expectations and I just didn't get what was so funny about it. I tried the demo, true, but I tried it for the first 4 demos of the new series and I couldn't stand them. Maybe the old ones are better. Oh well, some people like them. Glad to see people here appreciate adventure games. I liked Monkey Island personally. You wouldn't include fandango in that list of new ones, right lol? I know its only been 9 years, but still that's arguably the best adventure game ever made. (And yes, if you couldn't tell already, I love Grim Fandango. Viva la revolucion!) If you guys are looking for some great, free and old-style adventure games, try www.bigbluecup.com These are made by fans and often in the style of the old games. My favorite here is the remake of Kings Quest 2. Just skip the first remake, its not that good. Its way better then the original game. There are a few thousand games here and a few hundred are pretty good (not that I've tried more then 30-40. I know that's a lot, but that's over 5 years or so).

Author:	Swashbuckla [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
I haven't played any of those games but I will have to. Has anyone played Beyond Good and Evil? That's an excellent game. I never beat it but it was a fun game. My wife enjoyed that game and she is NOT a gamer so I gotta give them credit.

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Author:	MaxDSterling [ Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Games Today
Swashbuckla wrote: I haven't played any of those games but I will have to. Has anyone played Beyond Good and Evil? That's an excellent game. I never beat it but it was a fun game. My wife enjoyed that game and she is NOT a gamer so I gotta give them credit. Yes, good concept for it's surprising simplicity. Though I must admit the ending was a bit odd...